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Reinforcing Content vs. Teaching New Content with Board Games feat. Karl Rahenkamp – 123

Episode Overview

In this week’s episode of Board Gaming with Education, Dustin is joined by co-host Rich Hill and guest Karl Rahenkamp to talk about using board games to reinforce content and using board games to teach new content. Join Dustin, Rich, and Karl on this discussion of looking at best practices and some drawbacks for both.

  • Episode Topics
    • Board Gaming with Education Updates and TantrumCon- 0:00
    • Welcome Rich back to the Show – 2:26
    • Who is Karl Rahenkamp? – 5:08
    • Defining the Use of Games to Reinforce Content or Teach New Content – 5:35
    • Examples of Board Games for Learning – 7:50
    • Using Games to Introduce New Content in an English Langauge Classroom – 12:49
    • Another Example of Reinforcing Content (science) – 16:18
    • Werewolf and Wereword for Langauge Teaching – 17:17
    • Using Games to Reinforce Skills – 19:31
    • Take the Leap to Use Games in Class – 25:33
    • Rich Rejoins the Conversation – 28:49
    • Dustin, Rich, and Karl play Wits & Wagers – 36:19

Games from this Episode [Links include games in our Board Gaming with Education Store or Amazon affiliate links]:

Karl’s YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkO4Nc0cBQJ8tmji3SIYfnw

Karl’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/purplemooseplays/

Thank you to Purple Planet Music for the wonderful contribution of their songs “Soul Train” and “Retro Gamer” for our Sponsorship and Interview Segments. These songs can be found in full on this music archive. Also, thank you to Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) for his creative commons 4.0 contribution of “Getting it Done” for our Game Segment.

Our Facebook Group for Educators: Games-based Learning, Gamification, and Games in Education

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Board Gaming with Education Updates and TantrumCon – 00:00

We’re building an ambitious show that’s all about YOU—the gamer. Come interact and compete against board gamers from all over the world, win huge prizes, play with and against the House and have more fun than you can imagine!
What to expect at the Digital Event:

  • FREE to attend
  • Competitive games (with prizes!) 
  • Contests
  • Special guests
  •  Pre-release board game demos
  • Tantrum House Behind-the-scenes Live 
  • Social games
  • Roll & Write
  • Mini painting contest
  • A curated Zoom community
​  • EPIC Table Flipping Tournament!!!

Welcome Rich Back to the Show – 2:26

Dustin welcomes Rich back to the show to discuss today’s topic: “Reinforcing Content vs. Teaching New Content with Board Games.” Join Dustin and Rich after the conversation with Karl to discuss this topic further.

Who is Karl Rahenkamp? – 5:08

Karl Rahenkamp is a science teacher and department chair in Westchester, NY who continues to try to find ways to incorporate his love of board games into his classroom. In addition to his work as a teacher, Karl also runs Purple Moose Plays, a YouTube channel focused on solo board gaming.

Defining the Use of Games to Reinforce Content or Teach New Content – 5:35

Karl defines how games can be used to introduce content and reinforce content. He contrasts this with traditional ways educators normally do both.

Examples of Board Games for Learning – 7:50

Dustin uses the example of Wingspan and its ability to use its game mechanics to teach bird facts and interactions within a bird ecosystem. Karl then goes on to share his example of using Ion as a way to introduce new content and reinforce previously taught content.

Using Games to Introduce New Content in an English Langauge Classroom – 12:49

Dustin and Karl explore the idea of using a game in an ESL classroom and what it would look like to use it to introduce a new language. A challenge worth considering! If you have any ideas, please do comment below! Karl and Dustin talk about the game Snake Oil.

Another Example of Reinforcing Content (science) – 16:18

Karl shares the game Covalence a cooperative game and how it might be used to reinforce content related to compounds.

Werewolf and Wereword for Langauge Teaching – 17:17

Dustin and Karl talk about two other games that can be used to reinforce language learning– Werewolf and Werewords.

Using Games to Reinforce Skills – 19:31

Karl chats about using the game Zeno as a way to introduce the skill of iterative testing and deductive reasoning.

Take the Leap to Use Games in Class – 25:33

Dustin and Karl talk about the use of games in the classroom, and how the benefits can far outweigh any insecurities or hesitations of using games in class.

Rich Rejoins the Conversation – 28:49

Rich rejoins the conversation with Dustin and they chat about some of the insights that Karl had to share.

Dustin, Rich, and Karl play Wits & Wagers – 36:19

Dustin, Rich, and Karl play Wits & Wagers.

Transcript of “Board Gaming with Education Looks Back at 2020 and Ahead at 2021 – 121”

Dustin Staats 0:00
Here we go. Welcome to season 11 of Board Gaming with Education. I’m excited to be back this season. Like I mentioned in our preview episode, we have some really fantastic topics lined up for the season, you can go back to our last episode, I’m not going to go over all those topics again, just want to talk about today’s topic, which is with Carl. And we talk about using games to either introduce new content or looking at games to reinforce content that was already taught. So we talked about some challenges to both those we talked about some benefits to both of those, so be sure to stick around. I’m also joined by co host rich today. And we dive a little bit deeper into the topic after the discussion. And before we get into the episode, I want to share with you one thing that’s super excited that we are going to this week tantrum con. So tantrum calm calm is an online virtual convention, you can go there on to their website and check out their schedule for events. Really excited to be part of this because it’s free. And like I’ve mentioned so many times in the past on other podcasts or whenever I chat with someone about board games, modern board games, how to get involved, especially during this time. Well, this is a perfect example of a way to get involved because it’s free. The barrier to entry to go to this is literally nothing, you just go to the YouTube channel and you can engage in the virtual convention. Also, you can go to tantrum con comm and sign up to be a part of the audience. So there’s a backstage Zoom Room that you can be a part of as well. So if you want to take that extra step and engage as an audience member do that as well. I’m excited for this because they have a lot of fun prizes, a lot of fun competitions, a lot of ways to engage with board games, and a lot of new games from publishers. So again, tantrum con.com we actually will have an episode on Friday chatting more about that convention. So stay tuned for that. Now let’s get into the episode for today.

Board Gaming with Education 2:09
Board Gaming with Education, a podcast for anyone curious about how games and education mix, we explore various topics like game based learning, gamification, and board games and the impacts they have on learning. here’s your host, Dustin Staats.

Dustin Staats 2:26
Welcome to another episode of Board Gaming with Education. Have a topical discussion episode today. And I’m joined again by Rich long time back host or longtime co host back again. Rich, welcome back to the show.

Rich Hill 2:41
How’s it going, everybody?

Dustin Staats 2:42
So we are going to chat with Carl. Well, I’m going to chat with Carl, we’re going to talk about games to introduce new content or reinforce previously learned content. And rich and I will have a little follow up discussion about that afterwards. What’s kind of cool and why I’m excited to have rich on the show as they share similar background in that Carl had done some teaching for Japanese students and rich had lived in Japan. So there’s kind of an overlap there. They have different content areas that they teach, but as well as they’ve taught English language learners. So that’s something that all three of us kind of share in common, too. So let’s get into that conversation. And we’ll be back in just maybe about 2030 minutes.

Welcome to another Board Gaming with Education episode. This is a topic based episode. And we’re chatting about using games to either reinforce content or introduce new content. And I’m thrilled to be joined today by Carl rothen camp. I think I pronounced that right. I asked you yesterday, but now I’m realizing again, I should have asked again. And he is a science teacher and also solo board game reviewer for the YouTube channel, purple moose plays. Carl, would you mind introducing yourself a little bit more to our listeners?

Karl Rahenkamp 4:06
Sure. So as you said, I’m a science teacher and a reviewer of sorts. I’ve been teaching now, as a science teacher, this is my 10th year I guess. And I did a couple years of English teaching in Japan before that, but I’ve been a board gamer sort of all my life and re rediscovered it. I want to say about eight, eight years ago or so. And at the time in a science class, I was trying to find unique ways to start teaching more of my stuff. And I thought if I could find a way to bring board games into the class, it would be a whole lot of fun, so why not try it? And then as far as the review thing goes, this year with COVID I was home teaching online and had a lot of time at home. And I’ve been curious to start doing reviews and playthroughs a video so I had a camera sitting around, give it a shot and now I’m doing it for the last four or five months and it’s been a ton of fun.

Dustin Staats 4:59
That’s really awesome. I’m, I’m curious to hear about and maybe our listeners, what are some games that you’ve been playing solo on your channel.

Karl Rahenkamp 5:08
Um, the nice thing is I enjoy playing new games all the time. So I sort of go through them quickly, I’ve got a fairly small collection that I rotate through as much as I can. But yeah, the most recent one that I’ve been playing for preview that’s coming up is a Chinese game called ping out first Chinese banks. It’s a dice placement game about banking in ancient China, it’s been really pretty, pretty cool game to check out. And I’m excited to show the video for that one next month.

Dustin Staats 5:35
Awesome. Yeah, I definitely want to check that out, too. Because I we chatted a little bit about living abroad in Asia. And I think that’s pretty interesting to both of us, I’m sure. All right. So let’s let’s get into our topic, the first thing I want to chat about before we get into game based learning or using games in teaching, is to look at the broader idea of using games, either or not the broader idea of using teaching practices to either reinforce content or introduce new content. So could you share maybe, from your perspective, what those two things look like?

That’s really awesome. You gave me You also gave me some flashbacks of being in high school in the lab and trying to replicate some experiments and not really doing it the way it’s supposed to all the time. So I want to kind of look at this idea, because you just chatting about it now makes me think of my experience and playing the board game wingspan and looking at birds. I know nothing about birds and playing the game. It’s been a while since I played so I forgot everything I had learned in the past but playing the game and has like bird facts on there. A lot. A lot of the mechanics in the game operate as if the birds were in real life. For example, the Hawk, there’s a mechanic where you flip over the top card, and if it’s a certain size, the hawk eats that bird and you get a point. Because if that bird is part of your tableau, or whatever. So I’m wondering, what would that look like in the classroom?

Karl Rahenkamp 8:49
Well, there’s actually, I got very lucky because I’d say four or five years ago, I come across a company called genius games. Never heard of them. But they do a ton of really cool science games that the biggest thing for me when you bring on bring a game into the classroom is I don’t want it to be flashcards or just a trivia game or something that’s basically just class turned into cards. I want it to be a game that functions as a game first, that also presents content in a way that help is helpful in class. But the students are actually having fun with the game as well or they’re not going to want to play the game. And this game has, or this company has a couple of games that I feel really, really do that very well. I’m the first one I introduced into my class I really enjoyed is a game called ion. And it’s basically a card drafting game that you’re drafting ions, and then you’re pairing them up to make sets that form ionic compounds and then scoring based on the compounds that you can create. And I really enjoyed this one because I could use this both, as we said to introduce content or to review content, because of the way that the game is structured, because I’ve got these ion cards so I can treat those as as sort of flashcards to use as part of a lesson. As part of an interactive explanation of something, and then let the students play the game and understand how these cards combined first, and then come back and talk about how those are combining and why those are combining in that way, and sort of use that to sort of bridge into the conversation about what are ions and how to live form compounds. Why are these compounds important?

Dustin Staats 10:21
Yeah, definitely ingenious games were happy that they were one of the first publishing companies that we games of games we carried on our site. And yeah, I’ve had a chance to play ion. And what’s really cool, is, it’s very, it’s a very simple game, right? I feel like my wife and I were able to get through a game in like, 15 minutes. But we’re, we’re gamers, and we kind of know how the game games work. And we kind of don’t really take a lot of time on our interns, we go through it. So it’s something you can really use in the classroom. And it does give you that basic understanding of compounds and balancing equations. And then it shows you real world examples of compounds, right. I think I’m trying to remember some of them on there. There’s probably salt on there.

Karl Rahenkamp 11:05
Yeah, I think so. There’s definitely simple acids and bases of HCl. And anyways, and those kinds of simple compound.

Dustin Staats 11:12
That’s awesome. So as far as so this would be would you use a game like ion as a review, or to introduce content or maybe both?

Karl Rahenkamp 11:20
See, that’s, that’s the thing, I originally just use it because I love games. And I wanted to bring games into the classroom. And I thought, hey, the kids will have fun and play the games in class. So I’ve tried it both ways. I’m not sure which way works better. But yeah, it can be done. As it as an introduction of content, as I explained, if you use the cards, and you walk through the cards, and how the cards represent ions, and what those ions are, and how those ions combined. And if you play the game, obviously, with the rules of the game, aiming for those scoring goals, the students have to learn how to pair certain sets of cards as part of the gameplay. And then after they’ve done that, that gives them some background knowledge that when you start to introduce the content, about how ionic compounds form, and how the ions have a positive and a negative charge, and they need to balance out to zero. And if they’ve got that sort of pairing and grouping idea in their head already, it might be easier to introduce those concepts. But at the same time, if I’ve already taught them those concepts, playing that game is a good way for them to go back in and have a chance to sort of play around with the ideas that they’ve learned already. And really see physically how these things are combining together. I mean, not in a chemical way, but at least in a in a grouping sort of way to turn into these compounds. So I think it works in either direction. I’m not sure yet, which is better, but I think they’re both worth exploring.

Dustin Staats 12:49
Right. Right. That’s I mean, that’s really solid point is probably can be used for both right? It’s kind of a I dia that’s worth exploring. Trying to think as far as my experience, as far as using it to introduce new content. A lot of times for English language teaching, I would say it’s more of a way to practice what was already introduced. Yeah, I don’t know if Do you have any experience as far as using games in an English language classroom? I don’t know. I’m trying to think of ways maybe you would be able to use a game to introduce new language? I think that would be a challenge, right?

Karl Rahenkamp 13:32
Yeah, I think in an English classroom introducing would be tricky. I mean, I think I mean, I’ve only taught an ESL classes. So most of our sort of content was new phrases, or new vocabulary or things like that. And generally, we just started by sort of just introducing those phrases, practicing those phrases. And then yeah, creating a game that allowed the students to make use of those phrases in the game. So using it as an introduction of content in English class might be tricky,

Dustin Staats 14:00
right? Yeah, I think that would be very challenging. I would be curious to hear if anyone’s listening. They have any ideas as far as using a game to introduce language? I think maybe for like pronunciation, you could do something like a speed based game for pronouncing new words. And you can because I imagine we always talk about using games and being comfortable failing and not being Okay, so I wonder if he would try to use a pronunciation game now, I would still be tough because you still would want to model how to pronounce the word before playing the game, right? So you’re still kind of introducing the content first, very briefly, and then jumping into the game.

Karl Rahenkamp 14:46
A game along the lines of I don’t know any of top of my head, but there’s a game called snake oil. I don’t ever heard of that before.

Dustin Staats 14:53
Yeah, yeah, Snake was awesome. Yeah.

Karl Rahenkamp 14:55
Something like that. But with vocabulary. So if you gave the students vocabularyThey’ve never seen before and sort of have them in some way come up with sort of definitions for words that are completely new to them before they’d been told what they are. And sort of turn that into a game and see if they can sort of work their way towards the correct definitions or something along that line. I don’t know. It could be interesting. But tricky.

Dustin Staats 15:17
Yeah, that’s actually it’s given me an idea for something similar to using snake oil and giving them words, and having them try to come up with what those definitions of those words mean. So maybe they’re like making up the definitions. And then they’re making this connection between their made up definition and actually what it is like, they might be defining a word, I don’t know, like, hard drive as something that you go into the car and you are very well protected. And if you get in a car accident, you don’t get hurt. But then they actually go look up what a harddrive is and see its memory for your computer. And then they’re kind of making this connection between Oh, I remember when I thought hard drive was something you get in a car, but it’s actually memory for computer. Yeah, I don’t know. So that’s, that’s kind of an interesting idea to explore, I guess. What would you say? What are some good ways or ways you’ve maybe used in the past or ideas we can think of as far as reinforcing content?

Well, same thing I’ve already sort of mentioned with ion. But there’s another game, and I can’t remember exactly, and it’s called covalence. It’s a sort of Co Op game, also from genius genius game, where you get a bunch of different sort of parts of organic molecules, carbons and oxygens and nitrogen with different kinds of bonds on them. And basically, there are hidden compounds on cards, that one member of the team has to get the other members to guess by giving them hints that are on other cards. And they sort of have to use the hints and sort of guess at how those different pieces combined. And actually, which pieces at all are included in that compound. So that’s something that after you’ve already learned about covalent, bonding and how things combined together, and you know, how many bonds each element can make, and those kinds of things that once you’ve got that sort of baseline understanding that you can start, you have enough information to start making these predictions and try and figure out how these compounds are made. So I think that game works pretty well as a review of that content.

Right? Yeah. I’ve never played that game. I know, it is yet another genius games game. And I’m sure knowing that it probably would work really well in the classroom. Since I haven’t came across one, then that doesn’t work well as a board game for learning content. Yeah, and maybe as far as language goes that, and that’s because that’s my background, and you kind of did a little bit of language teaching two or I guess, eight years of it. And so maybe not a little bit, but some. And I think an obvious example of using game based learning is giving students opportunity to practice the language that you may be introduced to them. And one example I’ve done in the past is doing where werewolf, so I introduced content and grammar structures and a little bit of vocabulary. I mean, it’s not the most like useful vocabulary, like werewolf is kind of more fantastical term. And, yeah, of course, you want to know what that is, if you’re learning a language, but it’s not a term for business, English language learners, they don’t really need to know that term. But they definitely need to look at the grammar structures. Like, I believe that Carl is a werewolf because and supporting their opinion, and also just getting up and practicing staining things in front of people in a different language. So kind of a communicative based approach.

Karl Rahenkamp 18:36
It’s interesting that you mentioned that have you heard or have you ever played the game? Where words?

Dustin Staats 18:40
Yeah, that’s, that’s one of my favorite party games. And because it’s just so quick to pull out. Yeah, I had. I used it, I did it, I ran an English language corner at the university. And so I use that a few times. But I had in my bag once with and I was sitting around with some international students with like, award contests. And afterwards we were sitting around, I just pulled it out. And we just started playing, you know, because it’s super easy to explain, you just go over the you have 20 questions, kind of that game that you play in the car where you can only answer ask yes or no questions. And then you go over the rules of werewolf and it’s very, very simple. Each game each round is like two minutes so you can just stop playing whenever I’m that’s a good one. It’s sort of the same thing you were saying but already sort of geared towards the English language things. So we kind of chatted a little bit through email looking at teaching content in skill or keep either using games to teach content or to teach skill, a new skill or reinforce skills, when would you have used it to introduce a new skill or introduced content give example of either that or this

Karl Rahenkamp 19:50
was sort of brought up brought upon by the the whole pandemic that we’re going through right now because I’m not in a classroom. Everything I’m doing is distance learning. And on top of that, as I mentioned I’m teaching at a boarding school for Japanese students right now. So because they’re not here with me in New York, they’re mostly all back in Japan. So we’re on a weird schedule, online doing online learning. And so I couldn’t really do any real board game stuff in class. In addition to that, I’ve been teaching or I’ve been creating this year, a new science skills course for the ninth grade students at our school. And I was starting to look at observations and how to communicate observations. And we were working through all that kind of thing. And I wanted to get across this sort of idea that scientists are sort of testing things in a variety of different ways, you know, different times, different places, different variables. And eventually working through these things, they get the theories and they get the laws, after they’ve seen sort of the same things repeating over and over again. So I, I don’t know if you’re familiar with the game zendo,

Dustin Staats 20:51
I’m not I’m not, maybe you can, maybe you can explain a little bit of how to play.

Karl Rahenkamp 20:56
Sure. Well, the real game zendo comes with these little plastic pyramids, I think there’s three different sizes, and three different colors, maybe four, I don’t have the physical game. But basically, what you do is one person is basically the Zen master. And using those shapes, you create some kind of grouping of shapes. So maybe I have one green triangle facing up, I have one small red triangle laying on its side, and so on, and you create these small groupings of shapes. And there is some kind of rule that you’re following when you make this. So you have to make one that follows the rule, and another grouping that doesn’t follow the rule. And that’s all you need all the information you get. And then everybody else playing the game has to take their own shapes, and make groupings that they think might be following the rule. And they can either ask you, does this follow the rule, and in which case, you say yes or no, or they can say I know the rule, and they tell you what the rule is. And if the rule is correct, then of course, they’ve won the game. But if the rule is incorrect, you have to show them a grouping that follows the rule that they’ve given you, but doesn’t follow your own. So they basically you keep doing this over and over until, by looking at all the different groupings that have been made, you can slowly figure out what the original rule was. Now, I couldn’t do this, obviously, with physical shapes with my students across the world for me, but basically, I just created a Google Sheets document. And in that sheet, I used, I guess, three different size circles, three different size squares and three different size triangles. And then I told them, they could be red, blue, yellow, or green. And then I just played live through Google Sheets had them all as shared members of that sheet, while they were in a zoom session with me, and I gave them each their own page into Google Sheets. So basically, anytime somebody had a guess, they would tell me, I would jump to their sheet and tell them yes or no. And we played like that live on the internet. And it really worked to help them understand this idea of iterative testing towards figuring out some kind of rule, or the way the world works, kind of a skill.

Dustin Staats 23:00
That’s really awesome. And I look at it as a way to maybe reinforce some productive skills to where if A equals B, then B must be C. It’s not really my expertise, but knows

Karl Rahenkamp 23:14
for sure. No, but it was great. Because now that I’ve done this, as soon as I got done with that class, I started thinking, alright, once we’re back in the classroom, there are games like cryptid, there’s a brand new one from Renegade called the search for Planet X. And these are all sort of games that have the same idea where you’re looking at things on the board, or looking at situations in the game and trying to come up with some hidden rule or some hidden information. So I think these all of these kinds of games will work really well in the same situation.

Dustin Staats 23:42
Right? Yeah, the search for Planet X is one that we had played, I think it was it was one that we had, I had played one of them, like a game that I played more than others this year. I like it. It’s a really good game, but I think my wife really enjoys it a little bit more. And she thinks it’s like,

Karl Rahenkamp 24:02
well, I was I was excited. For my I mean, as a solo game reviewer and just a solo game fan in general. It’s the first time I’ve ever seen an induction game that can be played solo, because it has the app support with it. And I was really excited about right.

Dustin Staats 24:15
Yeah, the app. I really, I don’t know, I I get really excited when I’m playing it. But then I think I just get frustrated when I am not correct. But yeah, essentially, for anyone that hasn’t played search for Planet X, you have to deduce where Planet X is based on different variables, because it’s either close to asteroids or away from comments or away from a dead planet. So I mean, there’s different different rules. Those aren’t the rules, but it’s based off different rules based off different sectors on the board. And the app helps you like kind of check your answers.

Karl Rahenkamp 24:53
It kind of reminds me of those old puzzles when we were kids that that’s like Steve is the tallest student and students see Standing next to student D, and Jennifer has a dog, which one has three sisters, you know what I mean? It’s those kinds of deductive puzzles. But you said that the goal was to find Planet X. And that’s true. But the other thing that I really enjoyed about that game is it’s a bit more forgiving, because you don’t win the game by finding Planet X, you’re finding a bunch of small things along the way, and scoring points for that as well. So even if you’re sort of doing decently well, and finding lots of things slowly, even if you’re not the first one to find Planet X, you could still potentially win the game. And I thought that was kind of interesting.

Dustin Staats 25:33
Right, right. I, I’m trying to remember if anyone, because we played him probably like five times. I lost every time, so I don’t really remember. Yeah. Awesome. Um, so, Carl, do you have any last words of advice to teachers or anything else to share as far as using games to either introduce new content or reinforced content before we head into our game?

I mean, basically, I would just say, if it’s something that interests you definitely go for it, try it, I can’t say that it’s been 100% easy to get it done. It does take a lot of class time to explain rules, a lot of the time, especially I’m working at a school with a very big ESL population. So sometimes it takes more time to explain things than I think that it should. But I do think that it’s important for the students to have a chance to sort of play with the ideas that they’re learning in class. And the amount of time it takes to teach the rules is not necessarily a bad thing. I understand sometimes I’m in a private school. So it’s a little bit different. But I understand sometimes in the public school situation, there’s this real crunch to get through the content in a certain amount of time. But I do think that extra amount of time is generally worth it for things like this.

Right? I forgot, we were kind of chatting about that through email. And I, I agree with you, I think that the I don’t know if I want to say that theplaying the game that using the game that takes away, the time you have for learning is really, I don’t like I don’t even want to say take away because when you’re playing a game, even, even if it’s not necessarily related to your content, you’re still forming these relationships and building relationships with your students, you’re, you’re seeing as a teacher that is a bit more excited and playful. And that, in itself helps the learning process in your classroom and in your culture that you develop in your classroom. You know, students are more excited, you know, they’re more they know their teacher cares, because you’re taking those extra steps to help engage them in the learning.

Karl Rahenkamp 27:36
I will however, say and I learned from experience, make sure the students are playing the games that the students understand how to play the games before you jump in and play with it. I made the mistake of joining in with a group because they didn’t have enough numbers. And then there were one or two other groups that were lost. And I wasn’t able to walk around the room helping them figure out how to play the game. So make sure the students are playing correctly before you go play with a certain groups.

Dustin Staats 28:49
All right, and we’re back. Rich, what did you think about that? What are some initial thoughts of our discussion?

Rich Hill 28:55
Yeah, I really liked it. I think he puts in like a great context into the idea of when you need to when you should introduce a topic and the benefits of that for sure. I can’t agree more about, you know, multiple trivia games and playing Jeopardy over and over again. I, you know, students asked to play those things sometimes. And it’s like, uh, can we do something else, guys? But yeah, I completely agree with that. And to use it with content. I, you know, it reminds me I don’t know if you’re familiar with like the term, turning a classroom inside out. It’s the idea that like, students are going to, like, learn something at home, and then they do the practical work in class. So I can see like some of the games he talks about, like, have the students look over at when they’re at their house, and then when they’re in the class, you know, you’re using the resources of the teacher and the other peers in the class to kind of really make it into like a learning environment that’s also enjoyable, but what were your thoughts?

Dustin Staats 29:59
Read, I really liked that too is is the flipped classroom where you’re looking at different ways you can kind of create activities either outside the classroom that would normally be done inside the classroom, or vice versa. And that’s something I chatted about on the D Sol, di e s. o. o l podcast. It’s about English Language Teaching through Ed Tech. And that’s something that they talk about in using like, I don’t know, language learning activities for looking at the rulebook or watching a video of how to play a game as homework and then come into class and playing the game and building like comprehension questions around those types of activities.

Rich Hill 30:41
I think it also goes to like, the big question of education, right? Like, theory, work versus practical work, right? A lot of times we want the students to, at least in high school level, they oftentimes do have the ability to, like read and kind of understand the theory work, by reading by videos by things where you don’t need the one on one interaction or the interaction in person, compared to the practical sense of it. And you know, you can think of like curriculums, I’m sure Carl also taught like maybe an international curriculum that in some of their like exams that from New York, I can talk from my high school experience, we have something called like the region’s is. And the reason is, is we’re just like, a test that you took a multiple choice test, you take it and then you do well, or you don’t, and that’s it. But in some of like these international curriculums, like I could think of a GCSE, even IB, a lot of the tests are two parts. One part is like a theory part where it is the multiple choice section. And the other part is, like a lab, for example, or even in some of like the soft sciences, it would be like a portfolio. And I think that goes into the part where you’re actually doing the practical things in class, I think it will help for sure with, you know, the practical paper or the practical test that a lot of those international curriculums actually give.

Dustin Staats 32:06
Right, and that’s what I think What games do really well, too, is show theory and practice, right? You’re playing the game, through the practice of whatever, you know, whatever that theory might be. I, I love, wish my background was in psychology, I just kind of look at some games through psychology, just for fun. But just looking at some of the theories within games, either psychology and economics are huge. There’s huge theories, economic theories within game systems, which is crazy. What So one thing we talked about, maybe you can touch on a little bit? And I’d be curious, because I am, we kind of came up with a solution. And I was trying to think of one and you have some experience with teaching language? Or even if you have experience with your background in history, how would you use games to introduce new content? I think that’s the that’s the one thing that’s kind of, you have to be willing to take a leap of faith as a teacher, when you do that. Do you have any, any examples of times you would do that?

Rich Hill 33:05
It’s funny, you say that now, because I was just talking to some of my co teachers. And we’re all saying like, you know, what, the administration has been pretty relaxed lately, just because of COVID. And they have a good understanding of the stress that teachers are going on. So at least I feel now a little more willing to take those risks and willing to, I wouldn’t say have a failed class, but have a class where I can learn from faults, right? Really nice political way to say that. But yeah, so I think to introduce it kind of kind of, as we, we said, like, I know a lot of these games, they have YouTube channels, or YouTube videos at home, have students depending on their age, as their homework or their assignment that they need to do for the next class, watch it, have them even take notes on that if needed. And then when they come back, at least they’ll have a background about it. Because you know, even when you teach a content, you shouldn’t just have students start from scratch. It’s probably pretty similar when it comes to some sort of game or activity that you’re going to do.

Dustin Staats 34:11
Right? Right. I think all teachers are very familiar with the concept of scaffolding and bringing them into to playing the game that’s really important when, and that’s something we talked about on the podcast in the passage is teaching games to players like just not even in a classroom, but just teaching the player how to play a game, you kind of have to scaffold the game and how to do that for the player.

Rich Hill 34:33
Yeah, so I think as you were mentioning, like even if you gave like the written, you know, rules of the game for homework assignment, have them come back and they already have some sort of basic idea how to do it, and then you can kind of explain it on your own if they on your own if they have any questions or concerns or something along those lines.

Dustin Staats 34:52
Right, right. And I love your political correct way. And another podcast I listened to is the professor game podcast and he always starts with the This question is, what is your first first attempt in learning and or fail for using game based learning and gamification? And I think I mean, I don’t know, another podcast, john Kass, he talks about swinging for the fences for your students, they’re going to notice you’re swinging for the fences when you do things like that. And they’re gonna be in awe of you as a teacher to be able to try to do something.

Rich Hill 35:22
Do you have any examples of a learning challenge where you tried to do a project and it didn’t? didn’t work out?

Dustin Staats 35:30
Oh, so so many. I mean, one, one that I did was, we did leaderboards. And that’s a I don’t know how I went down that path. But that’s not a great thing to do for gamification, especially in an education. But yeah, there’s, there’s so many people will have to go back through the podcast. So listen to some,

Rich Hill 35:51
I just recall, one of mine, I was teaching, like sixth grade, or seventh grade or something. And I thought, I’ll do this cool project where students will make paper because they’re learning about like making paper in, in like, one of the four Chinese, like, great inventions, and we tried to do it, and it was just miserable. Like, you have to use like newspapers. Like, well see, we learned that it’s really hard to make paper. Yeah. Well, a lot of time on that, too. I felt like, learn from it. Right?

Dustin Staats 36:19
Yeah. Right. Right. All right. So rich, we’re gonna move into the game. This is wits and wagers. And it’s the family edition, or at least the rules that I follow are based on the family edition version of the game. But then I kind of modify it for the podcast. And actually, as of this recording, or very soon, we’ll have this game in our store on Board Gaming with education.com. Super excited, actually, because I love this game. And it’s a great game, to kind of do at being in classes like a classroom culture, exercise, or like to kind of grow a culture through games. But the game, so I’m going to give you a statement. And it might be like how tall is the Eiffel Tower, and you’ll have to give me a number, how tall is alpha tower and feet, and you’ll give me a number. And after you give me the number, I’m going to give you three other numbers. So you can choose to stick with your number and double down on it, or choose a different one. If you choose a different one and that one’s closest to the actual number, you get one point if you double down on your number, and that one’s actually closer you get two points, then you can score one more point against Carl. So if yours is closer than Carl’s you get one more point. So you could end up being you could end up tying, you could end up winning. So we’ll see how it plays out, you’re actually gonna win. I don’t want to get your offer to you. This is the first time doing this on the podcast, this game. I’ve recorded a couple other times of this game with just the one other person so this is the first time bringing the second person on to it. So I’m hoping this turns out well.

So the statement is every second, on average, how many slices of pizza are sold in the United States?

Rich Hill 38:17
per second,

Dustin Staats 38:19
per second.

Rich Hill 38:20
How many slices of pizza are sold. Now this is include like a pizza pie, like a whole pie is that slices into

Dustin Staats 38:28
a slice.

Rich Hill 38:30
All right, I’ll put some of my ideas. I feel like slices of pizza are really more of a, like a New York East Coast thing. Like in in DC I never see slices. They’re full pies. It’s crazy. So I it’s probably lower than then I would have originally said if I you know, only were in New York. Um, so I’m gonna say per second people. And that’s average. So okay, so that’s like 24 hours All right. I will go with 14

Dustin Staats 39:04

Rich Hill 39:06
is the world or just the US.

Dustin Staats 39:08
The US just the United States

Rich Hill 39:10
14 or 14

Dustin Staats 39:12
in for anyone listening and then and for anyone listening that wants to play long. I’m gonna play for you. Carl’s answer. Rich did not hear this answer yet. So this is just for you listening. We’re gonna listen to Carl’s answer. Here we go. So in the US how many slices of pizza are sold every second?

Karl Rahenkamp 39:29
It’s second. Wow. Wow. 10,000

Dustin Staats 39:39
All right, now back to rich. I’m gonna play for you the other three answers and for anyone playing along here are the other three answers for you to either double down on your own answer or choose a new one. And these are the three numbers that I have 56 353 or 3000

Your numbers way up there. But who knows? So those are those are numbers that were just randomly randomly picked by me. They’re not necessarily correct. They could be spot on, but not necessarily. So if you’re playing at home, you can double down on your answer. If your answer is closer than both the co host, you will score two points. Or you can choose a new answer. And if that new answer is the closest, you will score one point. And again, those numbers are 56 353 and 3000. Let’s listen to rich and Carl and see what they did.

Rich Hill 40:57
Right, like, How fast can you even serve us

Dustin Staats 40:59
all across the United States,

Rich Hill 41:01
we’ve been on these lines forever. Come on, they still pies, and oh, there we go.

Dustin Staats 42:24
One nothing. It’s a win win. Rich. Thank you again for coming on the show.

Rich Hill 42:27
And thank you for having me.

Dustin Staats 42:29
I hope your second semester of the pandemic turns out okay, and hopefully next year, we’ll be back in the classroom. And we’ll see you on again, hopefully before the end of the semester.

Rich Hill 42:40
All right. Sounds good. Have a good day.

Dustin Staats 42:42
All right. So thank you for playing Carl. And thank you for coming on the show. If anyone wanted to reach out to you your YouTube channels, purple mousse plays, where would they find you outside of that?

Karl Rahenkamp 42:55
Otherwise, I also run my excellent on nor more active on Instagram, same same problem this place. I don’t really have any sort of public education. I should be working on a Twitter or something. But I unfortunately don’t have anything. But if you do want to reach out to me through Instagram about education rather than gaming, I’d be more than happy to talk to you that way as well.

Dustin Staats 43:16
Awesome. Yeah, I think it’s hard to juggle those things. I remember I was running my personal Twitter account that was more like teacher and fun board game stuff. And then I was trying to run a Board Gaming with Education, Twitter, it’s like, All right, I’m just giving up.

Karl Rahenkamp 43:31
Well, I created one. I took a teaching with technology course as part of my master’s degree a couple years ago, and I created a Twitter account with that, and it was active for about a month or two and then I just got busy with other things and the wayside,

Dustin Staats 43:44
right? Yeah, right. Totally. All right, Karl. Karl, thank you again for coming on the show.

Karl Rahenkamp 43:50
Yeah. Thanks for having me. It’s been fun.

Board Gaming with Education 43:53
Thank you for listening in this week. If you liked what you heard, be sure to let us know you can find us on social media as Board Gaming with Education or big games or email us at podcast at Board Gaming with education.com. If you want to support our podcast, be sure to check out our support page on our website. As always teach better learn more and most importantly, play more. Thank you for listening and until next time,

Unknown Speaker 6:11
Sure, I mean, traditionally, you think of introducing content is a lecturer standing in front of the students sort of teaching them, these are the things that you should know. And this is how they work. And then sort of reviewing the content would be giving them a worksheet or doing something to have them answer questions to show that they’ve learned the content. And that tradition is sort of very old and very boring. And I try my best to get away from those old boring traditions. So introducing content is gotta be a way that you sort of bring up prior knowledge and prior experience and find a good way to connect to things the students already know to sort of help them pick up new information and connected and build a structure or some kind of support system that helps them understand what they’re learning. I also, even when I am lecturing like to sort of rather than telling the students things, asking them questions that are leading in such a way that they use prior knowledge that I’ve taught them to sort of make guesses or assumptions on things that they haven’t really learned about yet, but they should be able to figure out based on what they already know. And then after that, reviewing content could be a variety of ways. Of course, worksheets, do work occasionally, conversations with a partner or a group in the class, hands on activities. Of course, in a science class, there’s lots of usage of demos and labs and those kinds of things to actually try out the things you’ve learned and show that you can understand things in a real life situation. But it’s always a challenge to find out, come up with new and interesting ways to review or to make sure the students have actually picked up what you hoping they picked up on.

Dustin Staats 28:01
Yeah, definitely. I know, I were just, I was just chatting with someone about playing a game that requires secret roles. And I had the hindsight of not playing because if I were to play, I would have a secret role. And then I couldn’t help people understand their secret roles. And that’s a situation where it’s a game that you really need a moderator because if someone has a secret role, and they don’t know what it does, they’re just not going to engage in the game. They’re going to kind of not play.

All right, Carl, so stick around. We’ll be back with you and rich for our game. But we’re gonna chat with rich, a little bit more about this topic.

Rich Hill 39:06

So I’m gonna go 56 per second.

Unknown Speaker 40:46
Yeah. Well, if I learned anything from let’s make a deal, I’m supposed to always change to the different door the second time, but I think I think I’ll go ahead and stick with my number just to see how it plays out.

Dustin Staats 41:08
So we have a double down on the 10,000 from Carl in a switch to 56 from rich. So again, if Carl ends up being closest with his number 10,000, he’s going to score three points. And if rich ends up being closer, or 56, ends up being the closest number out of all of them, he gets one more point. And then also if his number, his original number is closer than Carl’s original number, he’ll score another point. So let’s hear the correct answer. So the actual answer based on this website that I found, so it could be maybe different data, but 350 slices are sold every second. So you could still potentially win, depending on what the co host does. Maybe they do like 1 million. You would and then they went around, there’s he would win there.

Unknown Speaker 42:01

Dustin Staats 42:01
I think I think you won that one, your one for three, because you use switched, you switched over the six acre into zero points. Carl double down on 2000, which earns him zero points because neither of those are closest, the closest was 353. But the answer is 350, which makes your answering closer than Carl’s. So you get a point no.

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