- Episode Topics
- Who are Dave and Justin and What is a Coozie? 00:56
- Learning through Gaming: the Electoral College – 2:37
- Getting into Game Design – 7:35
- Buy the Vote! – 10:40
- Thumbs Up, Thumbs Down Rapid Fire Round – 24:55
On this week’s episode of Board Gaming with Education Dustin Dave and Justin from Coozie Games. They chat about the game “Buy the Vote!” — a bidding game based on the electoral college. Dave and Just share a bit about their experience designing the game and how they incorporated a real-world idea into a game that is fun, fast, and educational.
Please visit www.buythevotegame.com to pre-order a copy!
Social Media: FB, Twitter, Instagram @buythevotegame
Thank you to Purple Planet Music for the wonderful contribution of their song “Retro Gamer” for our Interview Segment. This song can be found in full on this music archive. Also, thank you to Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) for his creative commons 4.0 contribution of “Getting it Done” for our Thumbs Up, Thumbs Down Rapid Fire Round.
Our Facebook Group for Educators: Games-based Learning, Gamification, and Games in Education
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Who are Dave and Justin and What is a Coozie? – 0:56
Dustin gets to know Dave and Justin and their company Coozie Games.
Coozies Games LLC started with a group of tight-knit cousins coming together to play board games during family gatherings and vacations. The familial fun and laughter inspired two of the cousins (Justin and David) to spread and share their enjoyment of board games with others. Ironically, in this highly connected modern world, we spend less quality time together with the people we care most about. Coozies Games LLC wants to build board games for people to bond over. So, get off social media, put down your smartphone, and start playing board games with your friends and family!
Learning through Gaming: the Electoral College – 2:37
Dustin, Dave, and Justin geek out a little bit about the electoral college. Dave and Justin share about how they’ve learned some things through their design of Buy the Vote!, like the number of electoral votes in different states and congressional delegation.
Getting into Game Design – 7:35
Dave and Justin share their story about transgressing through the board game hobby and getting into game design. They really wanted to create a game that is easy to learn with a lot of strategy and replayability.
Buy the Vote! – 10:40
Justin and Dave talk about the player experience in Buy the Vote! In the game you take on the role of an American presidential candidate of a new political party for 15 minutes.
Dave and Justin also chat about the educational aspects included in the game, like the overarching idea of the electoral system and money in politics.
Thumbs Up, Thumbs Down Rapid Fire Round – 24:55
Dustin challenges Dave and Justin with some rapid-fire statements to see their unsolicited opinions on them. Be sure to tune in to hear his answers!
Transcript of “Buy the Vote! feat. Coozie Games – 109”
Transcript automated and provided by otter.ai. [Using this link helps us continue to use this transcription service for future episodes.] Disclaimer: This is an automated transcript and may have errors in grammar, wording, and/or word choice.
Board Gaming with Education 0:03
Board Gaming with Education, a podcast for anyone curious about how games and education mix, we explore various topics like game based learning gamification, and board games and the impacts they have on learning. here’s your host, Dustin Staats.
Dustin Staats 0:20
Coming up, we have another interview episode, and this episode is about the game by the vote. It’s a very fun, light hearted game about the electoral college. And I hope you practiced your right to vote this past election. This episode is going live after the election. So congratulations to the new president, whoever that may be. Let’s get into the episode and learn a little bit about the creators behind by the vote.
Welcome to another interview episode of Board Gaming with Education. I am excited to be joined by not one but two guests today. Today I have Dave and Justin from cousy games, a family board game company who just finished their Kickstarter for by the vote. So I’m really excited to talk about this political game, political family game. So before we get there, there is one Fun fact I learned about them. They were called koozies. Before they were a game company, what the heck is a koozie?
It’s not to hold your cold drink. I’ll tell you that. So we’re excited to be on here on Dave and my cousin Justin’s next to me. So Hey, everyone, This is Justin. Nice to meet you, Dustin. Nice to meet you, too. So what’s that? What’s that? koozie? What is what is it? Yeah, sure. So koozies is a little nickname, a little team name, if you will, for us group of cousins that started seven cousins that came together to play board games over Thanksgiving, Christmas, grandma’s birthday. And we really bonded with each other over board games. And it’s a little play on cousins. It’s koozies. It’s just a cute little nickname we gave ourselves and then we decided use that for the business as well, because that’s where all started.
Yeah, that’s totally right. Dave, over time, we started at seven now we’re growing to aid because I just got married. And I it’s it’s I think it’s been a really great time. And for us to really use board games as a medium for us to get closer to each other as a family. And so, you know, wanted to kind of share that love with with everyone else. And that’s how we came with koozies games.
Dustin Staats 2:37
That’s really awesome. And congratulations to thank you. Thanks. So koozies is a board game company. What? Were you guys before the company or was a part of the company like, well, how does board games in that relate to each other?
Yeah, that’s a great question. I so for me, I’m actually a product manager in health technology today. And so, for me, actually, I think as a product manager, and working on different products, you always, you know, want to put your stamp in the world, you want to come up with something that people enjoy. And being part of a company, you know, like you you work on a cool product. But ultimately, you know, I think, you know when when, for me and Dave, when we thought about, you know what, what, it’s a product, we want to put our stamp in the world, you know, like board games is such a great opportunity that kind of brought our family closer together and wanted to really bring that to other people. And so for me, it’s about being a product manager. It was, you know, so transitioning to, to like a board game product was a was kind of in line with what I want to kind of do today.
The day job, I’m a boring old business analysts. So I’m like the expert, paper pusher. So having this opportunity to create a board game with my cousin is just this is pure joy for me. And I thought it would have been awesome opportunity, a lot of challenging parts. And it’s been a long road, but love sharing our creation with people that we’ve played with.
Dustin Staats 4:13
That’s really cool. And I’m excited to hear more about your story and how the game can be used maybe in classrooms, too. But before we get there, we’re our podcast is Board Gaming with Education, we talk about how games can help with learning or teaching. When was a time that you have learned something through playing a game?
Yeah, sure. Actually, I think for me, actually making this this board came I actually learned a lot about the Electoral College. You know, I think, I guess to just really talk about by the middle of it, actually didn’t know there was like 50, even 51 regions, when what you know it’s 5150 states plus DC that the vote for the presidential candidate and even learning about that. You know, main is has electoral votes by, by region, you know, like, there’s actually a lot of things I learned about, about the electoral college and even now now it really just it all comes to me so easily like California 35 Texas is 38 electoral votes yeah in New York 29, Florida 29 and all these kind of random facts about Electoral College just discussing me because we played played it so much. So that that was my that’s my effect.
Yeah, I just and I wouldn’t be ashamed. I’m same with you. There’s some things I’ve learned personally, just from creating this game. But you know, I think I love what Dustin is doing in terms of, you know, what your mission of kind of bringing board games and education aspect marrying the two together, I think there’s a lot to learn from board games, a lot of the soft skills beyond kind of the details of, you know, from from for our game for election system. You know, there’s there’s executive decision making, you’re teaching people patience, even money management, so a lot of the softer skills that you know, and in a fun environment that that should not go unnoticed. And honestly, these are very important skills beyond just math. And by the way, you do do math during our game, you just don’t know it.
Dustin Staats 6:18
That’s the the perfect learning opportunities learning without knowing you’re learning. So I have a quick pop quiz. And if you get it right, then awesome. If you get it wrong, you can just edit it out of the podcast. I’m sure you know it with the game. So Nebraska, because that’s where I’m from, how many electoral votes does Nebraska have? And why are they special? Ask.
I know, I know. Nebraska also also votes by region like Maine, right?
Dustin Staats 6:48
Right. Yep. Yep.
Yeah, by. And I think I want to say it’s 11. No, it’s not. It’s not.
I want to say six. We have stared at the cards so much that all together. I want to say six. You say look,
Dustin Staats 7:07
it’s lower. It’s really low, actually. Yeah, it’s three. It’s only the one part of the state is Omaha. And that’s the biggest city is inside a county. And that’s one vote. And then the other rest of the state splits the other two and a half. So it’s a I think it might be the smallest. I don’t know. I guess I need to learn this.
Yeah, yeah. That which one? Yeah.
Dustin Staats 7:35
So what made you decide because I listened to I listened to a little bit of your guest appearance on another podcast, and I was kind of looking at your Kickstarter. And it looks like we share a similar journey through the board game hobby, where Thank you listen to like Bonanza, and you mentioned that early on is Bonanza Clank? And, like, I saw cu as well. Those are some of the games that really got me into the hobby. What made you take the leap from playing games to creating games?
I think those games were kind of quick and easy for some of our cousins that are not hardcore board gamers and more more of a casual more gamer and we’re used when they hear board game, they think, oh, monopoly risk. And, you know, I would say, coop and Clank you know, the, that’s a step further than just your monopoly. And so these are easier games to learn, maybe not so click coop, definitely, Bonanza definitely that easy to play. And there’s a lot of us. So we need a lot of a game that could support a lot of us. So those are the reasons why I picked up on those games. And basically, Justin was the one who introduced these games to the family. And we just learned from him. And we play and have a ton of fun. And Justin on his idea streak decided, oh, why don’t I create a game and I and I thought, oh, wow, that sounds awesome. And then, two years later, we finally got across the finish line with by the vote.
Yeah, yeah. For me. It’s, it’s a great question. Like, for me, I I’m actually pretty hardcore gamer, I would say maybe not as not, not not to the I would say super hardcore, but I play gloom haven every, every week, for like, three, four hours, with the same group of friends in the last like two years. And in and I think, you know, since I also got married in the past year, as well. And, you know, I think during that time, when we were kind of making this making this game, you know, what I noticed was, there was a lot of my friends that, you know, didn’t really play board games that often. And I wanted to kind of create something, you know, like, what’s great about cu and like, Bonanza is, you know, you can kind of, it still takes a bit of time to learn, but you can pick it up fairly quickly. But we wanted to kind of make a game that you can pick up. It’s sort of very easy to learn with. Like a lot of strategy, and you know, when you’re when you’re playing by the vote also, there’s a lot of repetitive play also. So like, you kind of learn from your, your decision making really quickly. So it’s like, great for kids and great for learning. And so, you know, for something like by the vote, you know, I think we really want to do is make something, you know, really easy quick to play easy to learn, but with, like, you know, a lot of replayability with people with the different people that you play with, you know, somewhere dequeue and really, like, have something that that that’s that someone can just pick up and you know, kind of as a filler game as well. So,
Dustin Staats 10:40
super awesome. And by the vote is, can you give us a quick rundown of the experience someone might have with playing the game?
Yeah, sure. Sure thing, I think with, by the way, what you know, what the game is about is, you know, you and you and a bunch of candidates are trying to win the presidency, to try to get up to 170 electoral votes, you and the second place, the whoever the first place player and the second place player together have to collect 270 electoral votes, you don’t know who it’s going to be, but you’re all vying for that, for those same electoral votes, they could get dealt out over time, there’s like, you know, so we start with like, three, three state cards, I get delta. And people behind their little voting booths are deciding how much money I should spend to campaign in each of the states, whoever spends the most money for that state wins the state. Over time, there’s more and more state cards get as more and more state cards get out that the stakes get raised. And you know, there’s also swing states that come out that allow you to kind of steal steal from other players. And so it’s really sort of this escalating bidding game that really like that really like increases the tension as the King goes on. As you get closer to
Dustin Staats 11:56
the end of the election. Really cool. I love that it’s simple and quick to pick up. And it’s a fast game, because for using something like this in the classroom, that is, or those are some kind of check boxes that a game has to have. If you’re going to do a game that you know takes a little bit longer, you have to build out maybe a unit based around whatever game experience it is. But if it’s a simple game like that, and you’re kind of showing how the electoral college works in super fast, I mean, you said 15 minutes, right?
Yep, three minutes.
Dustin Staats 12:30
And three minutes to learn. Yeah, that’s I mean, that’s, that’s half a class time period for most for most classes, or, you know, 40 to 50 minutes for, you know, Middle School, which is probably about the time you’re studying for Electoral College. So how did you incorporate some real life topics like the Electoral College and the number of number of votes each state gets, how did you kind of use that in Also in, keep the fun in the game,
so we incorporated the real electoral vote counts, obviously, of course, it will be updated. And with every census, and then we will update the game accordingly. So we’ve incorporated the real electoral vote counts, but we’re the game doesn’t go into the issues is very much a non partisan approach to learning about the system, and not about learning about the specific issues, if that makes sense. Not politicizing a political game, which may ruin the fun. And I think the most rewarding part of this experience and journey for me at least, is we have played and play tested with kids, fourth graders and up and just the excitement then that they’ve gotten from this game, and the when they play, they want to play about six or seven times straight in, they are just so excited and hooked on it, then they’re they’re learning about saving money, they’re learning about strategy, they’re learning about patience. And, you know, maybe these first when they first approached the game. They play however haphazardly. But they the next team, they learn to get better. And at the end of end of the game, you have to tally up your score, and they’re doing math and do you know, Tally your score over 150 200 maybe even. So it’s, it’s there’s a lot of learning here.
Dustin Staats 14:27
That’s really awesome. And you said you were playtesting with fourth graders and up what, what were some of the or what was some of the feedback you received from those students?
Yeah, I think I think I think one of the things that I think makes this game really approachable, you know, for for younger audiences really is like, the not just the fact that it’s like, you know, really easy to learn, but every round, you’re kind of doing a little, you know, you’re basically doing the same thing and there’s like this repetitive nature in it, but you’re kind of adjusting Your strategy every round, right? In the game, there’s, there’s actually like, there’s eight rounds. And every every round, you’re like bidding on the states, you’re thinking about, okay, what’s going to happen? You know, like, there’s certain states out on out on the border currently, how much should I put in each of the states? What are other my competitors going to do? You know, should I put my kind of money on these swing states that come up, that kind of have these special effects. And in each, each round, you’re kind of making those same decisions. And as the game goes on, you’re, you’re making these decisions. The decisions get bigger and bigger, and there’s like, more impact. But it starts off pretty easy. This sort of the sort of repetitive nature, I think, bodes really well for like, younger audiences. And I think that’s why kids love it so much. It’s like, they they they see, you know, how people are, are campaigning for the states. And then they’re in their mind, they’re getting different ideas to, to basically adjust their strategy in the next round. And they they immediately see some feedback of like, you know, how how my strategy is working in sort of the subsequent in real time run around? Yeah, very, very quickly. And so that that will, is something we found resonated really well with, with kids, they’re they’re trying to learn, it’s like, No, you want to give kids an ability to make the make the choices with like, with not much repercussion, to make them better bad choices. Rather, give them an up another opportunity to, to adjust their strategy just through thinking and then see them succeed in that. And we saw, we saw, like, some of our best player was actually one girl that we put play test with. That was like 11 years old. She was like one of the best players we played with. She was like, consistently crushing us some times in the game. And in that, that was a that was just really exciting to see.
Yeah, I agree with those points. I think it’s just the play money, they get the whole the play money, get to decide how to spend the play money, there’s competitiveness involved. There’s the there’s this you know, real time gratification of knowing if what you’re doing your actions, if they’re strategic, if they’re winning, and then adjusting kind of the next round, in the game is 15 minutes, and you could restart if you do poorly.
Dustin Staats 17:23
That’s really cool. I love how you as a player, you can kind of see the, I guess, the iterative process of your strategy within the game, you don’t have to play some games, you have to play a whole game of it before you realize, oh, did that strategy work or not. But in this, you can kind of adapt as you see fit. That’s really cool. I also really like the reality of money in politics. I think that’s a important lesson that I guess shouldn’t be gleaned over in the game. And then, you know, classrooms too. So that’s, that’s really, really cool that it applies that real world mechanic and kind of shows that that’s a thing that, that maybe kids are not considering that money is a way to influence campaigns and people’s votes.
Yeah, Dustin, you nailed it. That’s right. It is it is the reality of, of elections. And to win a presidential election, I think it takes in the billion. That’s what it requires in terms of running commercials, ads. And, you know, there’s a focus on specific states in which state to run ads. And that’s kind of the parallel that we are trying to mimic, if you will, using the money you get from the super PACs, and which states are you placing your ads on, you know, in sacrifice of not focusing other states? So
Dustin Staats 18:46
right, I saw that you had swing states in there, too. Is that something that is based on real world swing states? Or is that? How did you come up with that? Yeah,
yeah, we actually so the there’s, um, there’s a bunch of swing states in the game. There were based on 538. The last, the last little, it’s a little bit of the last election plus this election, but 538 published, I think it was like 12 swing states. And that that’s what we used in our in our game. And we wanted, you know, in the game itself, we wanted to make the swing states feel special. And so there’s a there is a special mechanic that happens in the game where once if you want a swing state, basically, we want to simulate like the momentum is kind of shifting into your favor. And so you can kind of steal the last state from another player, which makes it really, really interesting.
Dustin Staats 19:46
Yeah, that’s really cool. I I didn’t draw that parallel when I was watching the video, but that’s really cool to the momentum shift when you win a swing state. That’s really cool. Alright, so before we head into our final segment, I do want to ask what thing as far as if someone is on the fence thinking about either buying this to play at home or buying it, maybe introduce it to their students in the classroom? What would you tell them?
I think one of the things that we run into is even as on the Kickstarter is that political games seem to have this stigmatism towards them. And because they think if you buy a political board game, oh, it’s gonna ruin game night. And I think that’s because some of these political election games kind of go into the issues a little bit. Whereas we kind of just nicely glaze along the surface, not once again, in a non partisan way. And I got to tell you, it’s truly fun. We have played tested with demo the game with almost 500 people, and got extremely positive results, I think 90, by 96% of people will play again, like 86% would recommend it to a friend. So if you play it, chances are you’re gonna like it.
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Like, like what Dave said, you know, it’s, it’s, it doesn’t it’s not a game where we’re really kicking the politics of things. But no, the whole Electoral College system is, is a little bit wonky, right. And, and we wanted to kind of point that out in the game and kind of poke a little bit of fun at it, while also kind of poke a little bit of fun at the whole fact that, you know, winning elections is so much based on money and how you think about using money strategically using your money in, in your campaign. And so, it this it’s a it’s a really fun, fast game, you can play with your kids, you know, you’ll have a lot of really great time kind of playing over and over again, it’s there’s a high replay value.
Yeah, it’s a great family game, the parents will also enjoy, not just the kids in the students. In this game, you play the game as much as you play the player, if you get what I’m saying. There’s a lot of EQ of reading people too. So that’s why some poker players are friends with play pokers play poker. They love this game, do they think it’s like even a faster version to Texas Hold’em because you get to flip up and read and bid even faster. Whereas poker, you got to wait for your right hand, the place was big.
Yeah, that that a lot of the game is actually because I like poker, but I hate waiting for that, you know, good hand the play. And so a lot of a lot of this game actually came about trying to solve that, you know, some of that fun elements of poker. But without having the kind of wait for that right
Dustin Staats 22:38
hand to come along. Really awesome. So the Kickstarter did just end and we’re going to go into the final segment. But before we do, where would someone get that game? If they wanted to? Oh, yeah,
you can preorder it on by the vote game calm. We’re taking pre orders. And we’re looking to ship the game in November.
Dustin Staats 23:03
Awesome, red around the perfect. Yeah, for the election.
And we were looking to work more closely with schools with classrooms. I mean, we just our passion here is to share this creation of hours with as many people as possible, especially with the educators that you know, the educators we talked to have a tough time teaching the lesson on the election system. And I think this is a perfect fun quick way of grabbing students attention and and helping them learn about I think one of the most important civics lesson which is voting.
Yeah, definitely. You know, I think when you know as we’re kind of thinking about growing this game, you know, we this initial version of the game we use are designed for for fun and you know for for down for teachers that kind of can take that initial teach a little bit about the electoral college, I think there’s even more things we can do and put into the game that that makes it make it makes it even more interesting like potentially adding capitals and things and there’s nothing you know, expansion ideas coming along. But But we you know, we would love to talk to more teachers and we’ve slowly started that process and kind of talking with teachers looking at you know, maybe even potentially coming up with with a specific especial, you know, teachers edition of by the vote. So you know, we’d love to get in contact with you if you’re a teacher, or if you’re at home just working with your kid and you are have want to have a lesson and a game to play with them. You know, we would love to hear from you. And you could definitely reach out to us through any social media or through our website.
Our only warnings you have to play seven times.
That may happen.
Dustin Staats 24:55
Awesome, and that’s again by the vote game calm if you are a teacher looking for Way to teach the Electoral College. Awesome. So we’re gonna head into the final segment, this is a thumbs up, thumbs down quick lightning round.
I’m going to give you let’s do forces statements. And you’ll give me a thumbs up and a thumbs down whether you like it or not. And then a brief reason why so we’ll start with the thumbs first, and then the reasons why after. So the first one is board game movies.
All right, the next one, abstract games.
Good. I will try anything. And so I think Thumbs up for me, I would try and think once any games and just there’s so I have we’ve met so many other creators is there’s so much creativity within this space, and I am been blown away by it. And I i’m open minded to anything.
Yeah, yeah, I think for me, too, you know, like, I think sometimes the more abstract, the more you can kind of bring in new ideas and creative ideas into the game in creative mechanics. I yeah, I’m definitely all for that. And, you know, like board games, I think, you know, there’s there’s so many already predefined mechanics and, and there’s like, ways to bring abstract elements and bring new creative board game mechanics that Yeah, definitely. Thumbs up.
Dustin Staats 27:00
And the next one, is more thematic Lee related politics at dinner.
go first? Yeah.
Yeah, I think I think thumbs up also. Cuz, you know, I think, you know, I think talking about politics, and, you know, understanding views between you, your parents, your cousin’s your family. Yeah, I think that’s, that’s, it’s really important. I know, politics is very polarized today. But, you know, I think it’s, it’s really important for us, you know, as people to really understand where people are coming from and really be empathetic and understand why people believe the things they do. So yeah, I would I would lean toward thumbs up typically just, it’s it’s important conversation that,
yeah, thumbs up for me as well, because you look at the voter participation, which is part of our social mission, helping voter participation, the future is at 56%. You know, it’s not great. And so, I think it’s because politics is stigmatized, and does once it’s stigmatized in the home, it’s harder to teach in the schools, because kids hear that, oh, politics should never talk about it. So maybe we shouldn’t learn about it. And maybe that is why for precision is where it is. So I think like Justin said, I think we should open it up and make it be more Okay, in a respectful manner.
Dustin Staats 28:34
Awesome. That’s very well said. And we’ll go with the last one. And this is a phrase that I’m applying towards board games, heavier, the better,
Dustin Staats 28:50
Like we might be upset.
It doesn’t have to be heavy to be, you know, a great game. Our game is definitely not heavy. And I think to this may be a call to the industry, I think to widen the industry further. And if the industry is growing, by the way, year over year, to widen the industry board game industry as a whole further, I think there needs to be more what hardcore board game is called filler games, other board games that are lighter, easier for casual board games or non Morgan’s of pickup and then launch themselves into a heavier game, if that makes sense. Justin’s in disagree?
Yeah, I think I’ll probably go thumbs down in this one. And mostly because, you know, I think there’s a there’s a time and place where these like, heavier board games, you know, and there’s, there’s definitely with some of the heavier ones that like gloom haven that you know, you’re really playing on a, you know, longer campaigns. Now there’s a there’s an opportunity to kind of get to know that group of friends really well and kind of go through these like challenges. together and really build your relationship with them. And, and that’s that’s definitely a lot of fun. I think there’s a different element of these like really long and heavy board games that I definitely enjoy from time to time. So
Dustin Staats 30:12
awesome. Awesome. So, again, Dave and Justin, thank you for coming on the show and one last time, where can they find by the vote or find you guys
you can find by the vote on by the vote game.com. And you could preorder we’re planning to ship in November. And we just want to give a shout out to the fans and play testers, the backers of our Kickstarter. Honestly, board game creation is a labor of love. The most rewarding thing that we can get from this is just the joy that people derive when they play by the vote. And we have seen that so many times over so thank you all out there for supporting by the vote.
Yeah, absolutely. This we have all the awesome fans and and we played with some people and loved I think as that that’s definitely the thing that keeps us going, you know, trying to trying to really bring that relationship and that closeness to people that play games and and that you know, want to get to know people more understand more. So yeah, definitely, by the vote game calm.
Dustin Staats 31:26
Awesome. Thank you guys so much.
Thank you. Thank you, Dustin.
Dustin Staats 31:31
Thanks. Thank you for listening to another episode of Board Gaming with Education. If you like what you heard, consider leaving a review on your podcast app. We’d love to hear from you. Love to hear what you think. And we’ll be back in just three short days with a new episode on Monday, and it will be a newly formatted episode super excited for this. It’s the new topical format for season 10. So be sure to come back on Monday and until next time. Remember, teach better learn more and most definitely play more. One game we’ve been playing recently we just finished a campaign of Kings dilemma, highly recommend checking out that game.
Board Gaming with Education 32:14
Thank you for listening in this week. If you like what you heard, be sure to let us know you can find us on social media as Board Gaming with Education or PGE games or email us at podcast at Board Gaming with education.com. If you want to support our podcast Be sure to check out our support page on our website. As always teach better learn more and most importantly, play more. Thank you for listening and until next time
Transcribed by https://otter.ai